Fury in the Codex?

[kurikara-ryuoh.livejournal.com]

My first question is a nice light topic: What are the connection to furies and humans?

So furies are element creatures as with the windmanes and the mountain that doesn't like people, both mention in Bk1. However, if they are independent beings, why do the Marat not acknowledge them? Why do they only bond to humans and how does this bond work?
The Marat bond is a blood transfer, maybe like a DNA mapping or exchanging since she does get green eyes. Alerans have bonding with a fury. Both happen after a a certain age, so they aren't born with the talent, the mutation. It is a bit like mutants from x-men with their needing to "grow into" their furies. [I can't remember who says that or when.]

And what's with having more than one?!

Comments

[kalium.livejournal.com]

I haven't gotten around to reading Cursor's Fury yet, but before that, Jim had never fully explained the system. Although I did get a good bit of answer out of him on the forum once.

[kurikara-ryuoh.livejournal.com]

Cursor's Fury aside [though you should totally read it, it's the best!] From the first two books it seems like there are furies in and around everything, and they seem to have personalities but who chooses whom?

[kalium.livejournal.com]

Such things have not been illuminated.

[monkeyscorpion.livejournal.com]

I think it's been mentioned that the fury chooses the person. I'm trying to remember exactly what Jim said, and as I just rolled out of bed, any thinking at all is well, quite impossible. But I will ponder this today and try to get back to you if other people haven't already answered your question before I do.

Warning, wild speculation based on spoilers

[brianh]

Marat chala bonds seem to focus on living things-- hence the 'dead totems' bit in Furies of Calderon. Furthermore, while the Marat are pretty wise-- or at least Doroga is-- Jim hasn't fallen into the "all-knowing shaman" trap. From what I'm reading, basically, until Kitai experienced Furycrafting with Tavi, the Marat had no damn clue what was going on with the humans, and believed that their powers were similar to those of Canim ritualists, if more refined-- hence calling it sorcery and believing that the weapons of the Alerans were their totems.

It's worth noting that while the world itself appears to be very different from our own-- it's got its own name, Carna-- the ancestors of the Alerans were very definitely Romans. Based on that, and the fact that the Marat appear to have had at one point the ability to travel between worlds, I'd say that the place is more likely to be a different dimension -- or far-travelled one-- from our earth, and the Romans, who were transported there. The alternative, of course, is the idea that this IS Earth, after some great magical catastrophe that possibly brought the Marat, the Canim, the Icemen (though we really don't know much about these guys; they may be mutant norse for all we know) and the Vord. Based on Marat ignorance of the Alerans, I'd say that it's most likely to be the former, but the latter would still work.

In either case, the Marat simply haven't had the exposure to the humans to understand how they and their bond work up until, well, Kitai. Furycrafting acted like ritualism, so they called it sorcery, and fought against them until they learned enough. Now they do know. It's going to be interesting to me to see whether or not Tavi's furycrafting will be shared (ie, less for each, but two versions), duplicated (Kitai and Tavi BOTH having the First Lord's strength, as well as the effects of Marat bonding on Tavi. Ouch.), or just mimicked (Kitai can do minor furycrafting, on the level of an ordinary Aleran, but with many furies, like a high lord, and Tavi is a First Lord) across the bond. In either event, it's probable that the Marat will understand the totemic bonding as soon as Kitai gets back word (probably at about the same time the scouts are sent for).

As for multiple, it seems that there's a critical threshold of power for Furycrafting-- hence the requirement to breed strong Furycrafting talents. When you reach a certain inherited or genetic load, you pass beyond the normal limitations-- one fury-- as well as increase in the power of the fury you can constrain. So the High Lords and Ladies can bind multiple ones (though, apparently, they still have favored elements, like Septimus' fire, or the rescued High Lady's named earth fury). This isn't a COMPLETE jump, though-- it's mentioned that most of the legionaires, for example, have "some" firecrafting. My suspicion is that for non-High Lords, you bond one and one only fury, but can use it and your fury-sensitivity to bully local furies-- though never as potently as your own. On the flip side, High Lords have vast control over multiple furies-- to the point that they are _responsible_ for colonization in some places by restraining the more grumpy and intelligent massive furies.

But this is all really speculation.

I'd imagine that the bond is based on inherent talents that develop slowly-- probably cognitive ones. It's a mistake, I think, trying to directly map a clearly magical element to biological processes, but I believe that a rough analogy can be made to brain development. It takes a while for sensitivity to Furies to develop-- probably, since we learn that Tavi's was suppressed, SOMETHING is always there, but it needs time to actually work its way up to full furybonding.

Re: Warning, wild speculation based on spoilers

[kurikara-ryuoh.livejournal.com]

The bonding btw Kitai and Tavi seems to have led to a sharing of abilities, and you right in that magic is magic and shouldn't be pushed to follow logic.

But what you said about Romans... there's always been a nagging question and I think I'll post it soon.

[yaoimutt.livejournal.com]

ok, I know I wont do as good a job as everyone else with the explanations but here's my attempt anyways:

ok, the furies and human thing is actually something from a pagan belief, which states that all things in all of creation have soles and spirits, that's the furies part, they are the spirits of the wind, of the mountains of the tries, of the volleys and rivers and everything else (if you read one, Isana mentions that rill is the fury of the rill river, or at least she implies it, she said that it was why she calls him/her rill) it's also a native American belief.

now for the human connection, again, it has to do with a pagan belief (ok, this time it's just me making if/then ideas) in Wicca and Alexandria (both pagan religions) at the start of adulthood (about 13) you gain the ability to common with nature (though it also says that most people don't listen to them, and that they have no ability to hear them if they don't actually try, which is my idea of why the marat don't acknowledge them, it's because instead of trying to listen, they just say "it's your sorcery" and leave it at that) ANYWAYS, once you get so old, you can hear them, and then there is usually a specific spirit that you connect to better then others, and this spirit would be your sprit guide. (hence why most of the people can use a lot of furies, but have one or 2 specific furies that only listen to them)

and no, they aren’t mutants, from what I gather, from both Amara’s "you still have time to get them" comment to Tavi in the first book, and Kitai’s comment about "still a whelp" I think it's more like puberty, happens around that time, if you think about it, parts of your body don't have hair until then, so that's probably it, and as for the chala thing, it has nothing to do with blood, they were "sole gazing" basically, which is something in his other book series "the Dresden files", and is incidentally also a pagan belief (something I have started noticing a lot in his books) in this case it's the hole "look into someone or something’s eyes and you can see right into there sole and connect with it" part of Wicca and Alexandria, and it's also a native American thing, it even mentions the chala as totems, and they are very similar, it's a coming of age thing for native Americans, so I think that's all it is, sorry, no mutants

and the marat do not only bond with humans, the bond with all living creatures, Kitai is the first to ever bond with a human, I think that's manly because of the hole "kill first, talk later" thing between the two species.

AND some people have more then one fury because some people have more then one spirit or totem (in native Americas, some people have one, and some have 3 or 4 or even sometimes up to 6! O.O that's a lot)

again, I am not 100% on any of this, I could be wrong and be pointing you in the opposite direction for all I know, but I hope not, anyways, if you have any questions, you can always ask me, and if you find out that any of this is dead wrong, just let me know so that I don't sound like a bumbling idiot whenever I talk about this stuff >.< because I love the books and REALLY don't want to get all confused later on in the series!